"Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

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Amack
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"Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:32 am

With Windows 10 Home
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, the lack of a checkmark in the “Adjust for Record Latency” check box does not prevent Cubase 9.0.1 Pro
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(or 8.5 Pro) from adjusting for the audio interface’s reported round trip latency as expected (nor does having the box checked.)

This can easily be reproduced by placing something on an analog track for playback through an interface. The corresponding interface output should then be routed to one of the interface’s inputs and punch recorded to another track. If adjustment for record latency was disabled, the recorded track should be delayed by the Round-Trip Latency (RTL) of the interface (the sum of its input and output latencies).

As demonstrated below, a test signal was placed on 4 tracks for playback thru 4 interface outputs. Each of these 4 outputs was externally connected to 4 interface inputs and punch recoded onto 4 other tracks. If Cubase had not adjusted for the record latency on these tracks, they all would have been delayed by ~9.33 ms – clearly, they were not. As expected, deactivating “ASIO-Guard” and/or changing its level did not have a significant effect (only ~0.5ms). The absence of the checkmark box did not prevent numbers in the “Record Shift” from impacting the adjustment either.
The checkbox doesn’t seem to do anything!

download/file.php?mode=view&id=19466

Note: I reported this issue previously, apparently without sufficient detail to prevent it from being placed in the “miscellaneous” file -sorry! I’d be happy to remove it if desired/required (assuming I can).

March 19, 2017 Update:
More details on the measurement procedure and the test wav file used can be downloaded from https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... 5-9-a.html :) Note that rather disturbing square wave distortion shown in the Scarlett 6i6 loopback recordings :!:
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gonzalolgc
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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by gonzalolgc » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:32 pm

Amack wrote:With Windows 10 Home
Windows 10.jpg
, the lack of a checkmark in the “Adjust for Record Latency” check box does not prevent Cubase 9.0.1 Pro
Cubase 9.0.1.jpg
(or 8.5 Pro) from adjusting for the audio interface’s reported round trip latency as expected (nor does having the box checked.)

This can easily be reproduced by placing something on an analog track for playback through an interface. The corresponding interface output should then be routed to one of the interface’s inputs and punch recorded to another track. If adjustment for record latency was disabled, the recorded track should be delayed by the Round-Trip Latency (RTL) of the interface (the sum of its input and output latencies).

As demonstrated below, a test signal was placed on 4 tracks for playback thru 4 interface outputs. Each of these 4 outputs was externally connected to 4 interface inputs and punch recoded onto 4 other tracks. If Cubase had not adjusted for the record latency on these tracks, they all would have been delayed by ~9.33 ms – clearly, they were not. As expected, deactivating “ASIO-Guard” and/or changing its level did not have a significant effect (only ~0.5ms). The absence of the checkmark box did not prevent numbers in the “Record Shift” from impacting the adjustment either.
The checkbox doesn’t seem to do anything!

download/file.php?mode=view&id=19466

Note: I reported this issue previously, apparently without sufficient detail to prevent it from being placed in the “miscellaneous” file -sorry! I’d be happy to remove it if desired/required (assuming I can).

Hi, reading the manual it says:
"Adjust for Record Latency
If this is activated, the plug-in latencies are taken to account during recording.",
i think what you are talking about is record shift, where you can enter the latency generated by DA-AD conversors in samples....
page 17 Operation manual cubase 9
but... i insterted in the master a waves c6 stereo plugin (Latency : 64 - in the plugin manager) to see how "Adjust for Record Latency" works and found 2 problems:
1 - nothing changed when checked or unchecked. :?
2 - and ... even if the plugin is Bypassed the audio passing through it is altered, NOT when its deactivated... :o

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Thanks, I hadn’t seen the 9 manual and there was no mention of it in the 8.5 manual. It looks like you’ve identified another bug in addition to verifying the one that I reported. Maybe you should submit a bug report on the new one so it can be addressed as well!

After the checkmark problem gets resolved, it would be nice if a more concise description of its function was added to the manual.

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:39 pm

gonzalolgc wrote:Hi, reading the manual it says:
"Adjust for Record Latency
If this is activated, the plug-in latencies are taken to account during recording.",
i think what you are talking about is record shift, where you can enter the latency generated by DA-AD conversors in samples....
page 17 Operation manual cubase 9
but... i insterted in the master a waves c6 stereo plugin (Latency : 64 - in the plugin manager) to see how "Adjust for Record Latency" works and found 2 problems:
1 - nothing changed when checked or unchecked. :?
2 - and ... even if the plugin is Bypassed the audio passing through it is altered, NOT when its deactivated... :o
Another post shows results that appear to contradict yours viewtopic.php?f=229&t=111073#p626105 :!:

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Novikthewise
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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Novikthewise » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:36 am

Yes because he put the plugin in the master and not in the input channel.
StudioPC: Core i7 2600, 16GB DDR-1333 RAM, Asus P8H67 m-Evo REV.3, Win 7 64Bit Home Premium, Cubase 8.5.20 64bit, Halion 5.1.1, Halion Sonic 2, Wavelab 9.0.25,

Mobile: HP Elitebook 8460p I5 2540m 8GB RAM Win 7 Pro 64bit, Cubase Elements 8.0.40

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:20 pm

Novikthewise wrote:Yes because he put the plugin in the master and not in the input channel.
Thanks! :oops:

So, “Adjust for Record Latency” prevents any delay caused by plugins on input tracks from impacting the delay/latency compensation applied during the record process. Since this ensures that those tracks are properly synchronized with previously recorded material, it should be enabled most of (if not all) the time. Right?
Maybe “Adjust for Input Track Plugin Delays During Record” would be a better name for that option (or at least a more concise description in the manual).

March 19, 2017 Update: I just updated the first post to provide more details on the measurement procedure and test waveform.

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:35 am

Amack wrote:
Novikthewise wrote:Yes because he put the plugin in the master and not in the input channel.
Thanks! :oops:

So, “Adjust for Record Latency” prevents any delay caused by plugins on input tracks from impacting the delay/latency compensation applied during the record process. Since this ensures that those tracks are properly synchronized with previously recorded material, it should be enabled most of (if not all) the time. Right?
Maybe “Adjust for Input Track Plugin Delays During Record” would be a better name for that option (or at least a more concise description in the manual).

March 19, 2017 Update: I just updated the first post to provide more details on the measurement procedure and test waveform.
As can be seen from the following, plugins only affect outputs. So, what I said here is incorrect (as was Novikthewise's demonstration.) I have no idea what he was showing in his pictures! viewtopic.php?f=198&t=111073&start=25#p629866 :o

So the "Adjust for Record Latency" checkbox has no effect!
Results.jpg
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Mix Console and Plugins.jpg
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Audio Setup and Markers.jpg
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Novikthewise
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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Novikthewise » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:55 am

Yet another example of how cubase is way too much for you to handle. Where did you insert the Curve EQ? Hmmm?


In the input Bus like i mentioned this here allready three posts above and in the test i made?

NO YOU FREAKING INSERTED THEM ON THE AUDIO TRACKS!!!!!!

Great show!!!!!!!
StudioPC: Core i7 2600, 16GB DDR-1333 RAM, Asus P8H67 m-Evo REV.3, Win 7 64Bit Home Premium, Cubase 8.5.20 64bit, Halion 5.1.1, Halion Sonic 2, Wavelab 9.0.25,

Mobile: HP Elitebook 8460p I5 2540m 8GB RAM Win 7 Pro 64bit, Cubase Elements 8.0.40

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:39 am

Novikthewise wrote:Yet another example of how cubase is way too much for you to handle. Where did you insert the Curve EQ? Hmmm?


In the input Bus like i mentioned this here allready three posts above and in the test i made?

NO YOU FREAKING INSERTED THEM ON THE AUDIO TRACKS!!!!!!

Great show!!!!!!!
If you (or anyone else) could explain (or preferably show me) how to do what you said you did, I would greatly appreciate it. :oops: But, for now, I did the following demo to see/show how ASIO Guard delay, plugin delay, and audio interface latency compensation work during playback/tracking. Again as expected, changing the state of the "Adjust for Record Latency" checkbox had no effect. :)
Playback Results.jpg
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Playback Mixer and Audio.jpg
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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Novikthewise » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:37 am

What a suprise. Wrong test. I did explain it to you in the other thread. If you hadn't called me a liar who makes things up with missleading and contrived tests i might have explained it to you further. Instead you where going all arrogant and condecending against me

I took the time to explain and show with pictures how midi ALC and "adjust for record latency" works. If you just didn't understand what i was doing because you are not familar with cubase and how to work with it you could have asked me to explain it further. Instead you questioned everything without even trying to understand what i did telling me that i have a misconception of things and that you had to correct me and that you are right and i am wrong.

sorry time for my turtorial about cubase is over.
StudioPC: Core i7 2600, 16GB DDR-1333 RAM, Asus P8H67 m-Evo REV.3, Win 7 64Bit Home Premium, Cubase 8.5.20 64bit, Halion 5.1.1, Halion Sonic 2, Wavelab 9.0.25,

Mobile: HP Elitebook 8460p I5 2540m 8GB RAM Win 7 Pro 64bit, Cubase Elements 8.0.40

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:38 pm

Novikthewise wrote:What a suprise. Wrong test. I did explain it to you in the other thread. If you hadn't called me a liar who makes things up with missleading and contrived tests i might have explained it to you further. Instead you where going all arrogant and condecending against me

I took the time to explain and show with pictures how midi ALC and "adjust for record latency" works. If you just didn't understand what i was doing because you are not familar with cubase and how to work with it you could have asked me to explain it further. Instead you questioned everything without even trying to understand what i did telling me that i have a misconception of things and that you had to correct me and that you are right and i am wrong.

sorry time for my turtorial about cubase is over.
Anyone else willing/able to help me understand what he's talking about? :?:

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:33 pm

Amack wrote:
Novikthewise wrote:What a suprise. Wrong test. I did explain it to you in the other thread. If you hadn't called me a liar who makes things up with missleading and contrived tests i might have explained it to you further. Instead you where going all arrogant and condecending against me

I took the time to explain and show with pictures how midi ALC and "adjust for record latency" works. If you just didn't understand what i was doing because you are not familar with cubase and how to work with it you could have asked me to explain it further. Instead you questioned everything without even trying to understand what i did telling me that i have a misconception of things and that you had to correct me and that you are right and i am wrong.

sorry time for my turtorial about cubase is over.
Anyone else willing/able to help me understand what he's talking about? :?:
Don't bother, there's a good description at http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/ ... al-routing. I'm working through it now. ;)

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:13 am

Novikthewise wrote:What a suprise. Wrong test. I did explain it to you in the other thread. If you hadn't called me a liar who makes things up with missleading and contrived tests i might have explained it to you further. Instead you where going all arrogant and condecending against me

I took the time to explain and show with pictures how midi ALC and "adjust for record latency" works. If you just didn't understand what i was doing because you are not familar with cubase and how to work with it you could have asked me to explain it further. Instead you questioned everything without even trying to understand what i did telling me that i have a misconception of things and that you had to correct me and that you are right and i am wrong.

sorry time for my turtorial about cubase is over.
Apologies :oops: It turns out that you were right. REVerence does have a rather significant amount of unreported plugin delay ("latency')! Also, the state of the "Adjust for Record Latency" checkbox does affect input busses. I'll post my demo results tomorrow if I can.

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"Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Something

Post by Amack » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:00 am

As Novikthewise pointed out, “Adjust for Record Latency” does have an effect after all. When it’s enabled (the box is checked) the latencies of plugins located on the input bus are compensated for (i.e. their latencies are removed) during the record process. As shown in the following demonstration results, Cubase 9.0.10 did this quite accurately even though the latencies provided by its Plug-in Manager were wrong for two of the three plugins.

The 1kHz square wave test tone from a Behringer CT100 Cable Tester was used as a signal source and, as shown in the setup jpg, the plugins were bypassed to facilitate the analysis.
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Adjust for Record Latency OFF.jpg
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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Novikthewise » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:06 pm

But i have to admit that i don't really understand the purpose of this function. Or in other words: Why would you ever have this turned off during recording. ???

Maybe someone can give an example in what situation you would want the plugin delay not beeing compensated during recording?
StudioPC: Core i7 2600, 16GB DDR-1333 RAM, Asus P8H67 m-Evo REV.3, Win 7 64Bit Home Premium, Cubase 8.5.20 64bit, Halion 5.1.1, Halion Sonic 2, Wavelab 9.0.25,

Mobile: HP Elitebook 8460p I5 2540m 8GB RAM Win 7 Pro 64bit, Cubase Elements 8.0.40

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Re: "Adjust for Record Latency" Checkbox Does Nothing

Post by Amack » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:13 pm

Novikthewise wrote:But i have to admit that i don't really understand the purpose of this function. Or in other words: Why would you ever have this turned off during recording. ???

Maybe someone can give an example in what situation you would want the plugin delay not beeing compensated during recording?
Cubase doesn't display latencies for the plugins in use properly/accurately. When "Adjust for Record Latency" is disabled (not checked) users can relatively easily measure those latencies (as I've shown). When it's enabled, users can determine if those latencies will be properly compensated for during the record (and likely playback) process(es). Although another DAW (like Bitwig) can be used to display the plugins' reported latencies, there's no guarantee that they are correct (just like the reported latencies of audio interfaces)! :)

IMO calling the function something like "Compensate for Input Plugin Latencies when Recording" with a concise description of the function in the manual would be prudent though! ;)

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