Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 here.
Post Reply
Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:41 am

I found a video on yotube where this is done in Protools

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUjh4NTmSks

Can this be done with cubase? For example, can I get the quantize to just do randomization?
and second can I get variaudio to do the same kind of ramdomization as this guy does with melodyne?

I think this technique seems to have great potential even though I think the guy does it too much
because the second guitar sounds too far off with the timing sometimes

User avatar
marQs
Senior Member
Posts: 2168
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 am
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by marQs » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:57 am

Haven't watched the video completely but that techniques are not uncommon.

For timing variations just use audio warp. Subtle. For tuning variations it should be enough to adjust 'straighten pitch' slightly. If it's too subtle phasing issues can occur (which can be easily cured with adding another warp anchor anywhere and pulling it a tiny little bit further).

Another method in repetitive music as pop tends to be anyways is to cross-copy parts.
Let's say you have 4 bars that repeat at least twice leave the original track as it is and copy bars 1 - 4 to the position of 5 - 8 etc.
Cubase 10 | WL 9.5 | Fireface UFX | UAD2 Octo (2x)/Quad PCI-e | Win10 Pro 64 | i7-7820 x | Asus Prime X299-A
http://www.secretsource.de
Authentic Drums - Sample Pack for Slate Trigger: https://www.authentic-audio.de/drum-sa ... e-trigger/

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:38 pm

Hi

Thanks for your advice!

But can I automate it with audiowarp in a similar way like in the video? In my world, using audiowarp
means going in manually and moving around parts in the whole song, which would take a long time.
Or how do you go about doing it?

how do you go about regarding phasing, just by ear, or is there another way to determine if there is phasing going on?


regarding moving parts around. the recordings I will be working with is not recorded to a click. ofcourse I realize
I can do this anyway by just letting cubase run tempo detection, but still, I am thinking that maybe this would mean less work

GiovanniB
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by GiovanniB » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:54 pm

Waves Reel ADT is very good to simulate double tracking.

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:23 am

Wow, that's a very interesting plugin. DO you think that generates a better result than the trick above?
Also, I assume it's possible to pan the guitar and the prossessed guitar in different directions just as I would do if I double tracked
an electric distorted guitar.

I have tons of live recordings with only a single guitar, and I really like to get something good out of these recordings so I want to find the best option for creating a fake doubled guitar.

MarQs: I'm not really sure how you would do the trick with audiowarp so that the whole track is randomized. how would you do that easily?

User avatar
marQs
Senior Member
Posts: 2168
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 am
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by marQs » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:42 am

Score81 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:23 am

MarQs: I'm not really sure how you would do the trick with audiowarp so that the whole track is randomized. how would you do that easily?
Yes, it's a manual process but it's easy anyway. Every here and there you set a warp marker and pull it a little. If it's too much, the difference will be too big (like two guitars not playing well together), if it's not enough you'll maybe get phasing (the fake doubling gets obvious and yes, checking just by ear).

Completely forgot about ADT for this purpose. Have it but never used it for that. Buy it if it's $29 :lol:
Cubase 10 | WL 9.5 | Fireface UFX | UAD2 Octo (2x)/Quad PCI-e | Win10 Pro 64 | i7-7820 x | Asus Prime X299-A
http://www.secretsource.de
Authentic Drums - Sample Pack for Slate Trigger: https://www.authentic-audio.de/drum-sa ... e-trigger/

GiovanniB
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by GiovanniB » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:01 pm

Score81 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:23 am
Wow, that's a very interesting plugin. DO you think that generates a better result than the trick above?
I do think so.

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:24 pm

Okey, so I actually bought the Waves ADT, what settings do you recommend?
I just want it to sound like it's two guitars, no extra phasing or chorous sound.
I tried the 2 guitars is better than 1 but for some reason it did not sound like I expected.
Also not really sure what instance of the plugin that I should use.
the guitartrack is a monotrack,

GiovanniB
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by GiovanniB » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:57 am

Try this:
Duplicate the guitar track. pan each one left and right (not 100%, somewhere between 75-85 is enough). in the second track add Waves ADT mono, and mute source (SRC). Now treat each track with different compressión, different EQ, etc.
Default settings work well, but you can play with the varispeed option to get a more drastic difference, and also by moving the ADT play head.

Another option is to move the guitar mono track to a stereo track, then you can apply ADT Stereo or ADT2V. But I think the duplicate mono is better option because you can use different effects on each track.

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:25 am

ahh, great, very clear advice, Look forward to testing just that!
And I know I should test it before I ask additional questions, but still: Are you putting different
compression and EQ on the different copies so that they will sound different enough and avoid chorous FX?
Or do you always do that when you have doubled guitars? I mean if I really had two recorded guitars I sometimes put the same
EX and compression on then and allow the panning to be enough to create separation. But I guess you could always add different FX to
two different guitars to make sure they get their own "space" in the "sound landscape": Just curious how you are thinking about this.

User avatar
planarchist
Senior Member
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:50 am
Location: UK.
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by planarchist » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:33 pm

There's also Cubase's own Cloner plugin.....not perfect but with careful use of the controls (make sure to switch off the Static options) it can be useful.
Nic

Cubase Pro 10.0.20, Abs.Collec.3, i7 4770K 3.5GHz, 32 Gig RAM, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, RME Digiface, Behringer ADA8200, S'berg Midex 8.
Cubase Pro 10.0.20, Abs.Collec.3, i7 920 2.67Ghz , 24Gig RAM, Windows 7 Ult 64 bit SP1, Yamaha THR5.

Cubase Elements 9.40 on Windows 10 Laptop, i7-2760QM 8Gig RAM, Sonic Port VX.
Cubasis 2.5 iPad Mini 4 64GB

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:24 am

Giovanni: Thanks for the suggestions. I tried it and I think it sounds REALLY good on headphones. However, if I listen to the mix in mono
and even loudspeakers I can notice quite a lot of phasing going on. Any suggestions on how to fix this?
The current settings are
vari-5 ms
ADT: -12,16

Do you think it will be enough to just increase those? ( I dont really understand what they do yet)
Also now I have the same EQ and compression, so I guess this could help a bit if I change...

Score81
Junior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Score81 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Sofar I have not been able to get a good result in mono.
Also The method with time warp, I haveen'ät found a fast smooth way to do this.

maybe doing set defintion from time and then cut and paste around is the best and only option. Any more thoughts on this?

PeppaPig
Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by PeppaPig » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:17 pm

The technique I usually use is...

Take the guitar track (track 1)
Duplicate it (track 2)
swap "identical" parts of track 2 over (if there are four bars of the "same" chord then swap them.
Pan Track 1 Left
Pen Track 2 centre

Create FX track panned 75% right
Put some sort of thickener like Soundtoys microshift on it.
Send Track 1 and 2 to the FX track.
Also experiment with an ultra short delay on the FX track before microshift/ADT/Chorus/Cloner whatever.

This is pretty much the technique used to make the single rhythm guitar on the Sex Pistols album sound big.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

Suprawill1
Member
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:56 am
Contact:

Re: Simulate a doubled guitar - works in Protools - how can it be done in cubase?

Post by Suprawill1 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 am

This is what works very nicely for me:

Make a duplicate track of your original guitar
Advance one track by 10 ticks and retard the other by 10
Use phase reverse on just one of the tracks.

This works great especially for a doubled rhythm guitar. I like to give a full stereo spread, one track left and one right for a nice big stereo field.
If you need this to work in mono mode, it will be a bit more effective if you go to 15 ticks apiece. By separating the tracks in the opposite
direction from each other by the same amount from center, they will sound like they are on time.
It sounds natural because there's no fx although you may enjoy seasoning to your own taste. The only thing that will be unnatural is the fact that
both guitars are playing exactly the same thing which takes away a little character but for a quick fix of the whole track, it takes about 30 secs to do.

(phase reverse is under "audio/processes" on the menu bar)
Home built Cooler Master tower - ASUS Prime Z270 MB - Intel Core i7 6700K@4.2G - CM Hyper 212 EVO Cooler - Corsair CX750M PSU - 32G G.Skill Ripjaw V - Dual 24" Monitors - Cubase Pro 10 - Windows 7 Pro 64 - Samsung 960 EVO NVMe - Samsung 850 EVO SSD - Roland Studio Capture Interface - X Touch Controller - Halion 5 - Halion Sonic 2 - Addictive Drums 1&2 - Melodyne 4 - Serato - Kore - Kontact - Morphology Etc Etc

Post Reply

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests